Friday 16 March 2012

Kia Carnival KV6 Spark Plug Replacement

I have a 2004 model 2.5l Kia Carnival (i.e. with the Rover-designed KV6 engine).  I’m not a mechanic, and wouldn’t even call myself a backyard mechanic, but I like to do what I can.

The vehicle was due for new spark plugs (overdue actually - they were due at 90,000km, but it had 103,000km on the clock before I got around to it).   

The three left-hand* sparkplugs are easily changed (and not discussed further here except for some general tips below), but I had read on the net about the challenges of accessing the right-hand* plugs as they are up against the firewall.  Changing sparkplugs is something I had always done since buying my first car more than 40 years ago and I wasn’t inclined to start paying someone to do it now!  So I decided to give it a go and found it’s really no great problem to do.  So I thought I would write up my experences for the benefit of others.

The surge tank (as its referred to in the Kia KV6 workshop manual) does need to come out to gain access to the RH plugs from the top but that was not a difficult job.   I read a suggestion to drop the engine down by loosening or removing the No. 3 engine mount but I found I didn’t need to do that. 

All that’s required (aside from the usual socket set, pliers etc) are two ½” drive universal joints.  And a 5/8” spark plug socket with a rubber plug retainer in good condition (but not too good! – see Tips below).

Replacing the plugs with platinum tipped ones means you won’t have to do this job again for 90,000km.   As mentioned, I ran the original platinum plugs to 103,000km, and they were in remarkably good condition (especially given that this is a ‘lost spark’ engine – the plugs fire twice on each cycle). The nominal gaps of 1mm were only about 1.1mm, with only minor ‘dishing’ of the earth electrode.

I bought NKG PFR6N-11 plugs (which is the same part number as the ones I took out) from Bursons - $120 for the 6.

I replaced both ignition harnesses at the same time, as someone suggested (reasonably) the insulation & rubber would be getting tired and hardened after 90-100,000km.  Bursons wanted $140 for aftermarket harnesses, but my local Kia dealer only wanted $126 for the genuine ones, so I bought those.

The surge tank (Kia term, Rover call it the inlet manifold chamber) is bolted to the inlet manifold proper, and the throttle body is bolted to the tank.  Here’s a photo of the surge tank before removal (with the engine’s acoustic cover removed) showing what needs to be removed: 


The two bolts securing two brackets on the tank to the camshaft cover need to be removed by feel, but that's not too hard.

When easing the surge tank off the inlet manifold, there are o-rings on the short pipe extensions on the inlet ports for the RH cylinders that will provide some resistance for the first 5mm or so.  Be careful prying the tank off, don’t damage the gasket on the LH cylinder ports.

The surge tank and inlet manifold runners will show some oil contamination from the crankcase breathers, and this is an opportunity to give them a clean.  I also took the opportunity to clean some of the accumulated oily gunk out of the throttle body and off the throttle butterfly.

Here’s the view once the surge tank is removed.  The RH cylinder bank camshaft cover is now visible.  The spark plugs are just on the other side of the cover. You don't really get to see them (unless you have a dentist's mirror), you need to do everything by feel:



Cover the inlet manifold ports with a cloth to keep dirt & foreign objects out.

Reach over the camshaft cover and pull the plug leads off - if they are like mine, and not touched since the vehicle left the factory 100,000km ago, they will need some pulling & twisting and there's only just enough space between the engine and firewall to get them out of the spark plug recesses - particularly the leftmost one.

Use two universal joints and the 5/8” plug socket onto your socket wrench like so:

The combination of the two joints (each 75mm long in my case) and the socket (65mm long) gave exactly the right length of ‘extension’ to reach around the camshaft cover & get down the spark plug recess to engage with the plug. Snake this assembly down into the spark plug recesses by feel, undo the old plug and retract.

Do the reverse to install the new plugs.  The feel on the wrench is a bit sloppy from the double dose of lash from the pair of universals, but there is n
o real problem feeling the plug washer hit the face and tighten.

Inserting the plug connector for cylinder #2 (leftmost) was the trickiest, as some air-conditioning pipes on the firewall were in the way.  This was the only time that a few more millimetres afforded by lowering the engine would have been useful.  Nevertheless I found that, by holding the plug connector with the spark plug connection end uppermost, and bringing the connector up in a gap between two of the pipes, it went in with a bit of jiggling and compression of the acoustic material on the firewall.

I didn't bother replacing the surge tank gaskets as they were in good condition.  Reconnect all the hoses, the brake booster vacuum hose being the most critical of course - double-check its security.  The pesky little air hose under the throttle body is easily pulled off while you are positioning the harnesses, etc.  Have done 4,000km since the change and no problems.


Tips

  • Use platinum tip plugs – I used NKG PFR6N-11 (and these were the original part).
  • Replace the plugs only when the engine is cold.
  • It’s a good idea to change the ignition harnesses at 90-100,000km.  $126 for genuine Kia harnesses (RH and LH).
  • Don’t over-torque the plugs in the KV6’s alloy heads!  If uncertain, use a torque wrench. (Torque: 18-22 ft/lbs, or 25-30Nm, or 2.5-3.0 Kg/m).
  • The box that the NKG PFR6N-11 spark plugs come in has a diagram suggesting to tighten the plug ½ to 2/3 of a turn after the washer contacts the face – this would be only if the washer on the plug is un-crushed (i.e. the plug has not been inserted and tightened before).  Again, if uncertain, use a torque wrench.
  • Before inserting the new plugs, it’s a good idea to test the assembly of socket and joints by inserting a spark plug into the socket and pulling it out - make sure the rubber retainer in the spark plug socket ‘lets go’ before the ½” drives on the universals do.   Otherwise the spark plug socket may stay in the hole when you withdraw the assembly after tightening the plug.  (One of my universal joints is an ancient thing - the ball detent was pretty tired and was letting go first – some oil on the ball detent fixed it).


Any comments & suggested additions are welcome!



* On an ‘east-west’ engine layout, the ‘side’ of the engine is referred to as if the engine was ‘north-south’.  So the ‘LH’ side of the engine is the one to the front of the vehicle, and the ‘RH’ side is the one to the rear, against the firewall.  

40 comments:

  1. where exactly do the lids go for the plugs ??
    i replaced mine but it seems like i put the lids on wrong and now i get a back fire.

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  2. Hi, I assume you mean the spark plug leads. On each coil pack you'll see the cylinder number stamped in white ink (you can see them in the lower part of my first photo above).

    Cylinder numbering (as viewed when standing at the front of the vehicle looking at the engine):

    Firewall

    2 4 6

    1 3 5

    Front of vehicle

    Hope that helps.

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  3. Peter, thanks so much for the detailed instructions and tips. I've just bought the same NGK plugs from Sparts Forestville at $23ea...Bursons quoted $26.50ea (less for trade). Will embark on the plug replacement tomorrow morning..wish me luck!

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  4. Good luck mike, although its pretty straightforward once you get into it. Worth checking while you have the manifold off that the vacuum purge hose to the throttle body is not cracked and split where it goes onto the fitting on the camshaft cover - replace with standard fuel hose it it is (I took the old hose to Supercheap Auto and matched the inside diameter to some they had there - was perfect). Also worth joining the Kia forum (http://www.kia-forums.com/kia-carnival-sedona-forum/) if you haven't done so already. And tx for the heads-up on the plug price. Cheers, Peter

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  5. Hi Peter,
    Well I've just finished changing the plugs on my 2005 auto Carnival. As you mentioned, the number two cylinder is the bugga of the litter, and requires a bit of patience and persistence. I was able to finish in 3 hours. Car runs smooth as new. I did notice though, that the old plugs "looked" ok....no fouling, tips were not burnt either.....I would have expected a fair bit of "wear" or blackening after 98,000klms. Nonetheless, I thank you for your detailed instructions.
    Regards,
    Mike

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    Replies
    1. Glad it went ok Mike. Yes my plugs were in remarkably good condition too. I replaced them because 'the book said to' but yes I wonder how long they would really have been able to go.

      Incidentally I've subsequently done a number of other write-ups which I've been meaning to put up here (timing belt, front oil seal, front brakes, vacuum lines & fuel filter), let me know if you need, although they are up on the Carnival/Sedona section of the Kia forum albeit may be difficult to find.
      Cheers,
      Peter

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  6. hello mike am trying to fix my plug wire but there is no 1 4 in the picture please can you show me

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    1. The '1 4' coil pack just has '1 4' stamped on it, with the wire on the '1' connector going to the sparkplug on cylinder 1, and the wire on '4' connector going to the sparkplug on cylinder 4.

      Cylinder numbering (as viewed when standing at the front of the vehicle looking at the engine):

      Firewall

      2 4 6

      1 3 5

      Front of vehicle

      Hope that helps,

      Peter

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  7. Hi, we have a problem with our carnival and wonder if you could help. We changed the sparkplugs about 20,000k ago just changed spark plug leads. Car still idles rough, and when under labour struggles to move. Cannot get any power to move. Runs fine downhill, uphill lacking big time in power. Any suggestions or help would be appreciated, thanks :-)

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    1. So it was idling roughly and struggling to move before you changed the plugs? and neither the plugs or new leads have changed the problem, does that about sum it up?

      In that case, I wonder if the problem is related to ignition. If the CCV vacuum hose on the surge tank side of the throttle body is cracked and letting air in, the idle can be rough. Similarly if the large rubber duct between the mass airflow sensor and throttle body is cracked and letting air in.

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  8. Thanks Peter. Your detailed instructions made this task a breeze. And saved me much needed cash!

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  9. You're welcome Brett. Our Carnival is 10 this year, and still running perfectly. We live near the sea in Tasmania now, and not a spot of rust.

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  10. Hi Peter.. My Kia is missing when I first start it up from cold...Runs fine when it's warmed up..it's well over due a service...just wondered if you had any ideas... Cheers bud Mitch

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    1. Hi Mitchell, hard to say, could be many things. Have you done the plugs and leads if they are overdue? Try posting on http://www.kia-forums.com/kia-carnival-sedona-forum/ - a lot of knowledgeable people there. Be sure to post to the right forum (e.g. up to 2006, 2006+) and give your model, year and engine type.

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  11. Hey Mike, would you happen to know where the in-line fuel filter is in a 2003 kia carnaval LS? thanks in advance.

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  12. Inside the pump assembly inside the fuel tank I think.

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  13. as a matter of interest, being a tight arse I buy standard plugs for my carnival, with the vehicle on ramps and laying on a mechanics creeper I found I can access the plugs closest to the firewall from underneath I use a magnetic plug socket approximately 75mm 3/8 extension and ratchet, cap off, insert socket and extension plug then ratchet into place, undo plug, remove ratchet followed by extension/socket/plug, installation being the reverse. 6 plugs replaced -20 minutes maximum. the only fuel filter the carnvival runs is on the bottom of the intank fuel pump, disappointed to find no inline filter but it seems to work ok as is

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  14. Hi Peter, thanks for the detailed information. I'm struggling to find a decent workshop manual to suit an 02 Kia Carnival 2.5. Ive purchased a CD from ebay, and downloaded another, however they're not great. Could you direct me to where I can purchase or download one? I have found the Kiatechinfo site, buts its really expesive. Any suggestions?

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  15. Hi Luke, yes its hard to find info on the 2.5l (KV6) engine, I've accumulated quite a bit of stuff over the years from various sources, f you are ok to post an email address I can send it to you.

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  16. Dear Peter,
    Hi, I did my plugs awhile ago and ever since id loose power, finally got to bottom of it, by swapping plug leads 3-6 to 6-3 if that makes sense. Now it idles at 1500 but my problem is I am not sure which plug goes on the throttle position sensor the grey or black, as the auto idle valve beside it can have either plugs as well.
    any comment would be welcome.

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    Replies
    1. Hi Robert, on the surface, swapping 3-6 to 6-3 shouldn't make any change, being a wasted-spark ignition system they should be essentially the same connection. Did you replace the ignition harnesses when you did the plugs? I wonder if it indicates the leads are dodgy.

      On mine the TPS connector has a blue coloured seal in the connector, and the ISC solenoid valve has a red seal. I notice however the Kia circuit diagram shows 'GY' (suggesting Grey) against the diagram for the TPS connector, and 'B' against the ISC solenoid (suggesting 'Black').

      FWIW the diagrams show the TPS wires coloured Yellow/Black, Yellow/Red and Blue/White. And the ISC wires Blue/Red, Brown & White/Red.

      Hope that helps.

      Peter

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    2. Dear peter,
      thanks for the wire colors, that will help.
      as for swapping leads yes it works, think about it as two separate clocks following each other, as the clock for the piston reaches 0 deg spark follows but with an advance (timing). if you swap them around you invert the timing. note the opposite position of clock hand ie as piston reaches 0 deg the spark is now the inverse of the timing either advanced or retarded.
      that's what I come up with and its working.
      I reset computer by disconnecting computer and letting it re teach and all seams well.
      thanks a lot again.

      0

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  18. Dear Peter,

    The issue I've been having has come back.
    you are right swapping plug lead doesn't matter.
    My diagnosis and symptoms are:
    After about 30kms of driving the engine light comes on and the accelerator is very un responsive, I have no power.
    I thought it could be fuel, but by chance I had to stop just after it started its tantrum. and when I started it cleared the engine light and drove normal!
    So had opportunity to do school run for kids pick up.
    It started its tantrum so and next set of lights I turned it off for 10sec and restart, drove normal again.
    Tested two more times and sure as eggs break when dropped it did it again, did same thing stop and restart, all normal.
    My question is, is their any sensor that puts the car into limp mode, I think I read some where that the o2 sensor can do this.?
    Any Help would be appreciated, help needed for me not the car.
    And by the way do you know the diagnostics pins under bonnet (99model carnival) as ive got a scan tool but need to make a patch lead.
    Thanks heaps

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    1. Hi Robert, yes I reckon the scan tool is the way to go, the clue being that the check-engine light is on, which is saying that the ECU has a code to send. Email me at pansell(AT)live.com.au and I can send you some details of the diagnostic plug.

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    2. Hi Robert, I am having the same issue - did you get to the bottom of it?
      Thx heaps

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  20. Needed help !! I changed spark plugs and leads .. When started the Kia started blowing White smoke really bad , I have found the Kia sucked heaps of petrol dosnt look like it's using coolent, I have found the smoke is coming out the the oil pipes front and back , second .. I was wounding about the two pipes under the trottle body.. Trying to work out , if I hooked then up backs ( sorry I had a person under my bonnet the had touchy finger problem.. And I really don't no wat to do or check any help please..

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    1. Hi Blake, I'm no great expert, but it seems odd that the white smoke problem would be caused by changing the leads. Despite the smoke, is it running smoothly? I'll check on the pipes.

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  22. Hi Peter, I have just bought a 2004 Carnival with the later motor. Having problem with no power & surging then cutting out at idle. The only way to move it is by feathering the accelerator until it gets to about 4,000 RPM. any suggestions. Could you send a copy of what you have in the way of workshop info please. Denis. Email: b4c4me@hotmail.com

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    1. Hi Denis, hard to say, I think most problems like that are due to one of the sensors not providing the ECU with the right info e.g. I could imagine a faulty MAS causing something like that, but I'm guessing. Peter

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  23. Hey I just changed spark plugs in my 2004 kia carnival 2.5 v6 and now won't Start seems to have lost spark all together any suggestions on what it could be?

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  24. Hi Peter,

    Just a thank you for posting this as I am changing the plugs this week
    Cheers

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    1. Thanks Steven, glad you found it useful. Hope it goes ok, post if any problems. Peter

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  25. Thanks Peter only detailed piece I could find, need to take the manifold off to drill holes to fit LPG injector points had no idea where the back fixings where and how many! Tanks Terry

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  26. Many thanks for the advice. Successfully changed plugs and leads on wife's carnival this week. Car bought second hand with a full service book. Car has 220,000k on it and by the look of them, the plugs were the original factory fit. Heavily eroded (it had developed a misfire). So much for log books.....

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    1. Hi Grant, glad it helped! 220k before giving trouble is pretty impressive. And yes, my experience of log books is that they generally qualify for the Booker Prize. Our Carnival still chugs along, although unused for a month now under the circumstances (we are comprehensively locked down here in NW Tas).

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